My First Letter to SHRI AJITA

Posted: March 27, 2008 / in: Blog / 16 comments

“For the one that is pure absolutely everything is pureTruly understanding everything means to forgive everything”

Dear Shri Ajita,

Thank you for your letter and for your concern for our yoga school, as well as for the help you intend to offer us and which is always welcome.

If I put myself in your place, I understand your concern. This is why I would like to clarify as much as possible certain aspects, so that this tormenting feeling of discomfort regarding me and our school will decrease. Please become aware that the state you experience is not harmonious for you and it shows that you also need to reconsider our suggestions because I do not have such states of distress and when I notice that something is not right I manifest rather a state of compassion and detachment and definitely I do not remain uneasy about it. Now I will take in turns the aspects presented so that we can clarify each of them as well as possible. Here is one first statement from your letter:

“You explain how bad people attack you and your organization and you speak of calumnies against you. But that is disturbing me. Because you cannot deny you are involved in sex business, as proved for me by the presence of a sex shop on your congress of Kopenhagen, where everybody could see and buy pornographic material, books or sex toys.”

I will start with the good news. You can relax with regard to selling porn material at a presumed sex-shop within the European Yoga Congress in Copenhagen: none of the shops authorized to sell their products at the entrance to the halls of the congress was a sex shop. I checked myself the lists with the materials they were going to sell in those days and I also spoke directly with the managers of those companies and I made sure it was not like that. I had to do that because, as you know, I had to leave the works of the congress immediately after the opening festivity – after the conference I kept in the beginning. I wanted to make sure that what you have indicated would not happen after I had left. The only materials of erotic nature that existed in that building during the three days of the congress were the ones brought by Kubera Tantric Butik and they were just some sex toys like the ones mentioned in the Kama Sutra. There were no porn magazines, books or movies, as you have said. Even so, those toys were not visible, but they were in a box available only to those interested. The initiative of that shop belongs to a yoga teacher in our school who teaches also Tantra. He considered that since at certain tantric courses we speak about sexual harmony within a couple, and since such toys are anyway mentioned in famous works such as the Kama Sutra, those who were interested could have them at their disposal, so that they would not have to go and look for them in the sex shops, where there are also other materials. And more, the team that organized the congress asked from the Kubera shop to keep those toys only for those who asked for them, and not exposed. Still, if you have more questions, you can contact directly Andronicus Torp, the manager of that company, at email adress andronicus@natha.dk.

“The essence of your problem, Mihai, is that you are busy with an own form of Tantra Yoga, which has been transmitted to you by Grieg Bivolaru. And you still believe the man.”

This part of your letter surprises me and I hope the cause of this strange affirmation is only the ungainly use of a language different then your mother tongue. Still, I wonder how the essence of my problem can be the fact that I follow my spiritual guide. In which books have you read that a disciple who follows his spiritual guide has an essential problem because of this? From what it is clearly stated in all basic treaties of wisdom, essential problems appear when the disciple does not follow his spiritual master properly. And, of course, in order to practically follow your spiritual master, you must believe in him and in the truthfulness of his affirmations. The form of Tantra Yoga that my spiritual guide Grieg had taught me is a TRADITIONAL one. I checked this myself, comparing what I have learned from him with traditional yoga and Tantra works. For me (as well as for many others) it is no longer a problem to believe Grieg or not, because now for me the authenticity of these teachings is a matter already proven, both by these studies I have already made, and also by the experience I have on this path. Therefore the affirmation “You still believe him” is pointless. The spiritual experience I have accumulate so far has made it clear for me that this man is right. Moreover, I became convinced that these traditional teachings are fitting with the ones taught by the great Divine Model which was Jesus when He gives the parable with the coins. I am surprised that you wish the burry the “coin” of sexual energy, which God had given to us, and that you do not want to multiply it for the spiritual good – as in the parable given by Jesus. Even if you have no interest for the Tantric path, it is worthwhile at least to relate to Jesus’ teachings, because from what I have checked and from what I practice, these paths are identical from this perspective. Besides, we also teach sexual continence in our school, which is mentioned in all yogi treaties as Brahmacharya.

Moreover, if this is the essential problem, then why don’t you ask these questions directly to Grieg? I am sure he will be happy to answer you. I am convinced that this approach would have saved many questions in the mind of some people and it would bring many revelations. I will carry on and answer your message.

You say:”Maybe you could start wondering about this, knowing that sexual desire is a very dangerous thing to handle, especially when dealing with beginners. Therefore, in ancient times, the Rishi’s (reference “Science of Soul” by Swami Yogeshverananda Sarasvati) have described the difference between Bahirmukhi Vritti (energy vibrations leading to external life) and Antarmukhi Vritti (energy vibrations leading yo internal life), which are called commonly the left path and the right path.”

I totally agree with this. Moreover, I would like to add that Tantric works insist on the necessity to have a spiritual guide as an essential condition, in order to be able to realize successfully this differentiation between the two tendencies, in a practical and efficient manner. At the same time, it is well known that Tantric methodology gives us the practical “tools” through which the people who are anyway projected in the outside will be able to turn this tendency towards the inside through the complex process of transmutation and sublimation of the inferior potential into superior forms of aspiration.

You continue:”Using sexual desire to attain internal life is an extremely demanding art, where the practitioner has to be fully detached, with his mind under total control. “Knowing what it is all about, I can be allowed to say that in this affirmation you make the most common mistake made by people who want to understand Tantra yoga without practical experience and without the spiritual guide who can initiate them in these mysteries. To easily underline the error, here are some helping questions:If somebody is completely detached and his mind is under total control, then what would still keep him trapped in the “outer world”?

Why wouldn’t he withdraw into the infinitely more nuanced world, rich in significances, which is inside him? And in this case, why would he still need to use any methods (not necessarily Tantric) in order to obtain “the inner world”, since from the very beginning he fulfills the fundamental conditions for this? In reality, the one who is in that situation would not need to use special methods in order to go inside. Therefore the methods used in Tantra are meant for those who did not reach this level yet.

They (the methods) aim exactly to awaken these abilities: of complete detachment and total mental control. In the following, what has been said above is confirmed:”Failing to achieve that, the practitioner will fall in external life, which is the cycle of reincarnation.”

Whoever is full of attachments and has the mind unfocused will anyway fall over and over again towards the “outer world”, and he does this without any Tantric techniques! If this was not so, then we would have already found the solution for people to remain always in the inner life: forbidding any Tantric procedures and removing sexuality would guarantee that we remain inside, since the temptations of sexuality are the cause for falling in the outside!

But it is well known what happened to spiritual systems that made this serious mistake: to forcefully and without any discernment try remove fundamental aspects of human life, such as sexuality from the spiritual path. The fact that the one who is attached and unfocused falls in the outside world is the cause of being chained into Samsara and it does not belong to a certain spiritual path but to anybody who is in this situation. To put the problem like you put it is like saying that in order for a person to truly evolve spiritually he should be spiritually liberated! Or a simpler example: it is like you say that in order to learn to swim you need to swim very well! I hope this example is enough! Actually, how can somebody fall into Samsara if he did not have some attachments to it? And if these attachments are still there, the best things the respective person can do is to practice intensely and face those attachments. Avoiding these trials just to keep ourselves in an illusory inside oriented illusion is nothing else but to constantly and irresponsibly postpone this tragic end, without taking any measures for preventing it. We cannot create desire where it is already transcended, and where desire still exists within the being it will come out to the surface sooner or later, sometimes having devastating effects for the spiritual life of the respective person. But dealing with this problem openly, people have the chance to know themselves more profoundly. If they will notice they still have attachments to inferior problems, then they have the Tantric methodology at their disposal, so that they can really and profoundly transform themselves through the final sublimation of desires into something completely superior and spiritual. Tantra always indicates this attitude as being the most rightful one in order to succeed to overcome problems and attachments to exterior life. It is obvious that this can work only together with proper Tantric methodology. Therefore, we do not encourage, for example, eroticism without the adequate method which allows transmutation and sublimation of the sexual impulse into superior and non-sexual forms of energy.

Besides, let’s not forget that in the eastern tradition we have the example of Krishna who made love to the 16 000 virgins. And even the Hatha Yoga system is of Tantric nature, representing in fact the union of polarities Ha and Tha.”Where is your practice Mihai, when you stimulate sexual desire in everybody walking by, without distinction, and even more, asks money for your sex tools? Is that not dangerous and a clear sign of attachment?”The fact that people have sexual desires is not due to us or to you. This is an aspect that exists naturally. As you already know, each pervert and limited person judges the world by his own perversities. But, for the one that is pure everything is pure. In this context I ask you: what is it more dangerous, to avoid facing what you already have inside of you? Or to learn how to deal with and then to face those tendencies which anyway, sooner or later, will have to be solved despite our coyly postponing? Is it a sign of attachment to take a problem into consideration, or to avoid it? Taken a certain problem into consideration does not necessarily imply attachment. But, stubbornly avoiding it certainly implies repulsion. As Patanjali tells us, repulsion has the same nature as attachment. The story of the two monks is significant for this: Two monks, one young and the other one old were coming back to the monastery from a pilgrimage. On the bank of a river they were about to cross they met a woman that asked them to help her cross over the water. The young monk shouted at the woman, telling her off for approaching them, as they were monks. Without saying a word, the oldest monk took the woman in his arms and crossed her over the water. On the other bank of the river, the old monk put the woman down without saying a word and continued to walk. After a few hours of walking in heavily silence, the young monk burst out, asking the old monk why he had taken the woman into his arms, thus breaking the monks’ code of conduct.

The old monk smiled and said: “I took the woman from one bank of the river and left her on the other bank, but you still carry her in your mind, due to your obsessions”.

At the same time in the affirmation you make I noticed also a breach of the yogic moral code. According to which criteria can you judge my practice or that of our school by asking rhetorical questions as long as you have not followed the courses of this school? How many hours have you spent studying our courses? How many people have you met that have practiced yoga PROPERLY AND PERSEVERINGLY in this yoga school? Have you analyzed the results they had carefully?But skipping the moral code aspect I would even understand some of your above affirmations if in our school sexuality would be a constant or predominant topic. But, for your information, in the curriculum of the courses from the first 10 years of yoga (approximately 480 printed courses), in maximum 10 of them only it is spoken of sexuality. To say that this is a problem shows an exaggeratedly chaste attitude.

Please study the entire program of activities of Natha Yoga School (the guest of which you were), which is published on the website of the school and tell me what is the percentage of spiritual activities regarding sexuality, considering the general context of the school? You will then have a great revelation, seeing that we do not stress so much on this subject. It is better to rely on facts when you emit valuable judgements. Nevertheless, the fact that in this school we speak very openly about sexual life and how it can be integrated from the spiritual point of view is not a secret. In this context some of those who teach Yoga and Tantra within this school have initiated certain projects (among many of the projects we have going on in the school, besides the Yoga and Tantra classes) meant to describe an alternative to the unconscious and degrading sexuality which people usually practice. And as we know this kind of unconscious sexuality has unsuspected but very serious implications upon their spiritual life. The aim within these projects is to present the way in which people can integrate consciously and spiritually the concept of sexual continence as a starting method for reintegrating sexual experiences in the spiritual life.

I am aware that some of these initiatives are revolutionary but if we did not have as a base the many years of spiritual practice and spiritual results we would not have afforded to walk this path. And we are aware of the risk to be misunderstood by those who are still under the spell of worldly desires and who see the world through the lenses of their own obsessions. But this is always the risk with the ideas that transform profoundly the life. As you know, the drama of many people nowadays is not due to the fact that they do not know what harms them, but it is due to the fact that they cannot do almost anything to snatch themselves from the attachments to pleasures of the exterior world. Let’s not forget that people nowadays are still buying cigarettes on which there are printed pictures of people dying from smoking! They are still buying the cigarettes not because they are blind but because they are unable to resist the gigantic attraction toward the exterior temptations. Whatever beautiful words we will say, most people will have big problems to follow an ascetic path – that of total refusal of the world of senses. And this is for the simple reason that they do not have the necessary training and force for this powerful ascension. For all these people – who represent a majority in the present moment, in this age of spiritual decay – Tantra Yoga is a path towards God, which is practically accessible. These people caught under the spell of their own desires should not fool themselves anymore by repressing into their subconscious the inferior tendencies because on this path they have the practical methods to become aware of those tendencies and to sublimate them into superior spiritual aspirations, without the need to go through the traumatizing experiences of going astray from the path towards God. This is why, on the Tantric path, most people are not afraid at all to approach subjects which are normally taboo for the ascetics.

Those who walk the spiritual Tantric path approach life openly and without prejudices. This does not mean at all that they do only what they want, no matter the consequences. That is why Tantra says that “everything is possible but not everything is allowed”.The simple fact that we speak openly about aspects which for some remain taboo makes the ones who want to benefit from our school, to wish to exploit peoples’ fear and misunderstandings regarding these subjects. For this, they throw on the market half-information and even absurd information, counting on the confusion that already exists on those subjects.

You continue you letter with this affirmation:”My problem now is that I doubt you can recognize the danger of your lack of knowledge about Tantra Yoga. I hope that you can recognize this and act in consequence. For that I am ready to help you. Coming to Bucharest on your special invitation will then be a pleasure for me, giving me the opportunity to explain you more.”

With all due respect, I want to draw your attention and to tell you that your affirmation that we do not have the necessary knowledge regarding Tantra Yoga is once again breaking the spiritual moral principles, since you did not have the chance to know us directly and to be able to study how much or how little it is known about Tantra Yoga in this school. If we judge a school by those who repeat the class and who failed their exams, we do nothing but to become ridiculous. I know you understand what I mean, because I noticed in a reply you gave to Prof. Dr. Holger Lutich, on the same forum of the international yoga federation how you doubted his ability to judge MISA as long as he did not know it very well.

You said there: “Anyway I do not understand that you admit not knowing M.I.S.A very well, but still are in favour of defending that organisation.”

Please be consistent with your own principles.Moving over this mistake (which I have underlined due to an open dialogue we have engaged into here), I must tell you that you are always welcome (as you have always been) to the congress we will organize in Bucharest, under the International Yoga Federation’s patronage. We are sure that truth can come out of constructive debates.Nevertheless, for us it is strange the fact that although we have shown so many flagrant aspects of breaking human right in Romania, although you know very well that Romania is the country with most convictions at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, yet the reason of your concern is represented by these aspects, which once explained, appear insignificant, as you can see. Doesn’t this show an attachemnt to the exterior world of illusions created by our own projections?Which treaty of ancient wisdom says that people are not allowed to follow their own path towards God? In the law trials in Bucharest, yoga teachers are absurdly accused of human traffic, in a way similar to Kafka’s absurd style. How long must those trials in Bucharest must still continue until people from the spiritual environment will stand up firmly, beyond the particular path they are on?

For this, please read the accusations the Chineese government has against the members of Fallung Gong movements. You will notice striking similarities. Nevertheless, there, because there is political interest to force the China’s communist regime, something is being done to support the respective movement. I believe you agree with me that we do not need to have victims among yoga practitioners in Romania in order to ask firmly and urgently from the highest worldwide authorities for these abuses and attacks against M.I.S.A yoga school to STOP!
In this direction we expect at least the same concern and support, because it is much needed now, when more then 50 romanian yoga teachers are taken to court. They are judged with certain law files for which Romania is criticised openly by the European Administration. As a last proof for the affirmations I made about the abuses against the Yoga movement in Romania, here is how the press has interpreted your letter: It was said that the Federation withdraws her support for the congress in Bhucarest and even that you have personally announced that you do not wish to participate in the congress. This tendentious interpretation of what you said by some romanian newspapers (which are supported from behind the scenes by forces within the state control regime) must make you wonder whether they are trying to use you in order to make new attacks against the yoga school by compromising its image. In order for all these situations to be avoided it is best to know the truth as it is BY DIRECT EXPERIENCE AND NOT BY FOLLOWING SOME GOSSIPS. In order to create this opportunity to link all of us on the field of genuine spirituality we invite everyone who wants to participate in this International Yoga Congress to come with an open heart and to know also the host school, M.I.S.A. Thus, these unclarities generated by anonimous and bad intended gossipers will no longer exist.We look forward to seeing all of you in BucharestWish you Love in the Heart and Peace in the Mind

Mihai Stoian

Honoray secretary of International Yoga Federation for Scandinavian countries

Reprezentative of ATMAN International Federation foor Yoga and Meditation

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Advaita Stoian

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Comments (16)

  1. Ana Dumitrescu says:

    Bietul Shri Ajita…. O fi si el vreun francmason vandut.
    Altfel, Mihai, cum iti mai merge cu cea de-a doua sotie? Lansarea voastra in industria sexului v-a sudat mai bine cuplul?
    Eu m-am retras de la curs dupa meditatia cu “777 miliarde de miliarde de ani”. A fost foarte frumoasa si am avut revelatii foarte importante. Dumnezeu mi-a revelat faptul ca acum exista in Romania si alte scoli de yoga, iar fiica mea nu va trebui sa mimeze “orgasmul” urinar in vreo proba secreta. De asemenea am inteles ca satisfacerea fanteziilor erotice ale unor oameni care nu mai sunt multumiti cu sexualitatea normala, nu constituie vreo forma de evolutie spirituala. Iti doresc succes in toate lucrurile bune pe care le vei intreprinde! Dr.Ana Dumitrescu
    NB: Un mesaj semnat de un actor de filme porno nu poate rasturna o atentionare prieteneasca facuta de un colos spiritual cum este Shri Ajita. Nici macar tu nu crezi asta, nu-i asa Mihai?

  2. kapalika says:

    What on earth does the Kama Sutra have to do with tantra?

  3. admin admin says:

    Draga Dr. Ana,
    mi-am permis sa sterg magariile pe care le-ai scris la adresa parintilor mei. in rest am lasat afirmatiile tale asa cum le-ai pus.
    faptul ca te-ai retras dupa meditatia respectiva este optiunea ta si te priveste. daca dupa o meditatie reusita tu te retragi ma intreb ce ai fi facut dupa una care nu iti reusea?
    restul afirmatiilor tale sunt inca o dovada a ceea ce poate sa faca neintelegerea unor aspecte esoterice. de aceea chiar si iisus spunea ca nu trebuie sa dam margaritare la purcei… dar deh mai scapa uneori.
    daca nu credeam ca un mesaj de la mine poate sa ajute la aratarea adevarului nici nu as fi scris mesajul.
    succes pe calea aleasa de tine de acum inainte.

  4. cecilika says:

    Mihai dragule,

    am si eu o intrebare: ai trimis epistola ta adresata domnului Ajita si lui sau astepti sa vina sa o citeasca pe minunatu-ti blog? Nu de alta, dar nu vad acest raspuns al tau pe yahoo group-ul federatiei.

    Dincolo de acestea tin sa te felicit si pe tine si pe maestru-ti eliberat (as fi facut-o alaltaieri pe mess, dar erai busy)pentru recentele interventii pe yahoo group-ul federatiei.
    Datorita lor o sa avem de lucru mult mai putin pe forumurile antiMIsa nu doar pentru a demonstra ca la MISA se fac filme porno, ci si cit de evoluati spiritual sint atit Gregorian Bivolaru cit si excelenta ta.
    Mult succes la scrierea de mesaje indolente, de pe pozitia unuia care e al doilea dupa al doilea dupa Dumnezeu. Aveti toate sansele sa ramineti in istorie si cu treaba asta.
    Sa va dea Dzeu minte, macar pe aia de pe urma,

    Cecilia Tiz

    P.S. Pentru informarea ta: arunca un ochi pe site-ul IYF si a sa constati cu stupoare ca pe lista evenimentelor de anul acesta ale federatiei nu figureaza nici un congres, conferinta sau cum vrei tu sa le botezi, care sa aiba loc in Bucuresti.

  5. Crina says:

    Jesus, the tantric… Wow… Never saw that comming! BOR representatives would stone you to death for this!
    You know, I remember from my first courses that my teacher told us something about Tantra: “Tantra yoga is not, as some occidental people would like to think, only about sexuality. In fact, sexuality is a very small part of it.” Contrary to this affirmation (yes, I am still attending the courses), from your reply here, something stands out: Tantra is all about sexuality!
    Which is it, Mihai? 1st year or Nth year? Do you find some similarity here? Because I do…

  6. A.M. says:

    What does sexual tantra has to do with yoga? There is absolute proof that sexuality is abhored in any sane and authentic spiritual movement. Your master, cites Swami Sivananda. Sivananda rejected the ideea that sex has something to do with a spiritual movement, and he vehemently opposed that. Can you quote me ANY ancient text that permits sexual contact in yoga?

    P.S. Kama Sutra has nothing to do with Yoga.

  7. Gura lumii says:

    Mihai, you wrote that you practice a “TRADITIONAL” form of Tantra. Please point to us at least the name of a traditional tantric text (not a contemporary neo-tantric text) where we could find indications to subjects like urinary orgasm, esoteric lovemaking between women, or lovemaking between three or more persons simultaneously (sic). I’ve searched several books and I couldn’t find such references.
    And please don’t use texts like Kamasutra for example because that kind of texts is not actually tantric.
    I personally believe that is everyone’s choice if he/she wants to make love (or sex, whatever) with a partner of the same sex, if wants to experience the urinary orgasm and so on.. But I don’t think that those practices are truly “TRADITIONAL” tantric.

  8. A.M. says:

    Yes, post some proof please on your claims, ancient texts if you can, some of us know sanscrit around here.

  9. Gura lumii says:

    I also have other questions about the “TRADITIONAL” tantric teachings.
    In the MISA yoga courses are included a “PHOWA” practice and some elements from the Kalachakra system. The original PHOWA and Kalachakra belong to the tibetan tantric buddhism Vajrayana. In Vajrayana exists some very restrictive rules regarding teaching such techniques, which is alowed only with an authentic lineage. From who exactly did mister Bivolaru received the initiation in those kind of techniques? Where is his tibetan lineage?
    Also, your colleague, mister Nicolae Catrina, teaches a course of Kashmiri Shaivism. At that course the students receive even some initiations in some techniques (like using of some mantras – for example the mantra SKRK wich is mentioned in some tantric texts regarding the utkranti technique of “yogic death”). Where is his lineage also?

  10. AtmaViveka says:

    Why do you care so much where did Gregorian Bivolaru and Nicolae Catrina gained their lineage to teach tantric buddhism and Kashmiri Shivaism? Are you deeply aknowledged to these systems in order to make any judgement? They may not be the absolute authority in those but are trying (and very much acting) to bring them back to the life of meditation and practice. That is not what I can say about you by speaking down on these men without any proof or real motif (at least that I could understand).
    You’ve exposed yourself anyway by your pseudonym that you are nothing but a petyful intriguant, better at least than being a tool in the hands of the evil and machiavelic secret services or masonry.

  11. Crina says:

    Dear AtmaViveka,

    It is important where these knowledges came from. And I quote from Mihai’s letter, as argument:
    “Knowing what it is all about, I can be allowed to say that in this affirmation you make the most common mistake made by people who want to understand Tantra yoga without practical experience and without the spiritual guide who can initiate them in these mysteries.”
    In his own words, without a spiritual guide to initiate you…

  12. Bhairava says:

    I see here many people that are not referring to the arguments.
    I studied the tantra from MISA, Natha and Mihai Stoian and I verify them.
    They are right that they are having very strict and traditional spiritual principles and I invite anyone to verify this.
    This is the truth.
    I am wondering how some people are so angry to talk very badly about this school and I agree that it is not a good idea to judge a spiritual school about those who were rejected by it.
    It is incredible for me how mr. Ajita write about shops with pronografic materials in a place where this were not exist. And how is he judging this spiritual school without a serious study on it.
    This is not honorable and not spiritual.
    The words sex-business are very dangerous but I verified and there is no prostitution and pornografy is only about a easy film that is documentary-artistic film.
    No group sex at this school.
    They are taking only about sexual relation based on true love. I think that this is the spiritual way to have a relation with somebody.
    The urinary orgasm without losing the sexual energy is very real, so, what is the spiritual problem with it.
    I think that mr. Ajita is influenced by politics, but I am sure that he, like a spiritual man, can come and verify the spiritual principles of this school.
    Why spiriutality is so influenced about politics…this is a nightmare…

  13. Bhairava says:

    Vad aici multi oameni care se refera la evenimente fara a se raporta la argumente.
    Am studiat tantra la MISA, Natha si de la MIhai Stoian si am cautat sa verific informatiile.
    E adevarat ca principiile acestor scoli sunt foarte stricte si traditionale.
    Acesta este adevarul.
    Sunt mirat cum pot atat de multi oameni sa vorbeasca cu rautate despre aceste scoli si nu cred ca este o idee buna sa judecam o scoala spirituala in functie de cei care au fost refuzati de ea.
    Este incredibil, pentru mine, cum Mr. Ajita scrie despre materiale pornografice ca ar fi existat intr-un loc in care nu au existat. Si despre cum dansul judeca o scoala spirituala fara a o verifica , mai intai, foarte serios.
    Acesta nu mi se pare un gest spiritual.
    Cuvintele sex-business mi se par foarte grave, dar, am verificat, si nu exista prostitutie in aceste scoli iar asa-zisul unic film porno este de fapt un documentar-artistic.
    NU se practica si nu se discuta despre sexul in grup in aceste scoli.
    Se insista pe faptul ca relatiile amoroase intre fiinte de sex opus trebuie sa se bazaze pe o autentica iubire si acest lucru mi se pare modul spiritual in care doi oameni se pot apropia amoros.
    Orgasmul urinar realizat fara descarcare sau pierderea energiei sexuale este foarte real si nu vad care este problema spirituala in legatura cu el.
    Cred ca Mr. Ajita este influentat de politica, dar sunt sigur ca dansul, ca un om spiritual, poate veni sa verifice realitatea principiilor spirituale ale acestei scoli.

    Nu inteleg cum oameni spiriutali pot fi atat de usor influentati de politica…si consider ca acest lucru este un cosmar al spiritualitatii.

    Bhairava…dar pentru conformitate dr. Alexandru German

  14. kapalika says:

    Dear Atmaviveka,

    As it so happens some of us are very concerned that the public will come to identify some truly beautiful and interesting religious traditions with the bizarre activities of Misa. As for your point that these people are trying to resuscitate traditions, I find it highly dubious that simple commercialized plagiarism copy-paste style peppered with some of their own fantasies will do these traditions any good.

    I would have nothing against Misa if it weren’t for this aspect. Let them do whatever they want as far as it’s legal; it’s a free society and many rebels without a cause will find comfort in such activities, but _please_ don’t call it either yoga or tantra and keep on pretending that you have the accord of genuine traditions for your behaviour. You don’t.

    I am beginning to become sick and tired of the fact that Indian traditions are somewhat like anyone’s whore. Try to imagine that someone does the same to your traditions as well. Say a gay temple in India with people dressing up as Jesus and the apostles miming sex (sorry, lovemaking) on stage. Disturbing, isn’t it? And they would have full justification: Jesus said ‘love thy neighbour’.

    You must still have at least half a brain functional. For goodness’ sake, use it.

    Yours,

    kapalika

  15. Bhairava says:

    BILANTUL SI BALANTA

    Draga doamna Cecilia Ghitulescu,
    imi pare rau pentru dezamagirea sufleteasca pe care ati suferit-o din cauza sotului dumneavoastra (am aflat aceasta citind postarile dumneavoastra de pe forumuri).
    Recunosc ca nu pare sa fi fost placut pentru dumneavoastra, dar nu pot sa justific purtarea dansului. Daca dansul zicea ca va iubea, inseamna ca a incalcat legea iubirii, care il impiedica sa va faca sa suferiti.

    Dar daca nu va iubea (nu stiu cum a fost) poate ca era cazul sa va despartiti mai devreme..

    Aceasta ar insemna ca nu ma reprezinta ceea ce ati patit dumneavoastra si ca eu, in locul dansului, este probabil ca nu m-as fi purtat asa. Va asigur ca am probat aceasta prin chiar viata mea personala de pana acum.

    Totusi, desi sunt in mod sincer alaturi de dumneavoastra in aceasta chestiune (sper sa credeti aceasta, deoarece, deocamdata, este exact asa), nu sunt de acord cu atitudinea dumneavoastra din ultimii ani, cand am observat ca faceti tot posibilul, in mod programatic,si, recunosc, cu inteligenta, sa impuneti o viziune urata despre MISA, amestecand putin adevar cu…mult neadevar.
    Banuiesc ca faceti acest lucru considerand, cumva, ca “scopul scuza mijloacele” si ca ar fi mai bine sa “afectati” cat mai mult organizatia care considerati ca v-a facut rau, prin fostul dumneavoastra sot.

    Eu nu cred ca este buna aceasta atitudine deoarece, studiind mai multe miscari spirituale de ceva timp incoace, sunt nevoit sa recunosc ca MISA a reusit unele lucruri extraordinare (si ar trebui, daca sunteti sincera, sa recunoasteti acesta) si anume:

    – a creat o scoala de yoga pe care o vad foarte buna (se spune ca ar fi ce mai buna din Europa); dar, ca sa nu va par exaltat, vreau sa subliniez ca este vorba de o scoala de yoga bazata pe principii autentice traditionale care sunt aplicate efectiv de un numar important de persoane, mai ales din Romania si care chiar obtin rezultate importante si sunt recunoscuti in societate ca fiind persoane onorabile si demne (exista si “uscaturi”, dar nu au o pondere semnificativa si consider ca acum realizam o evaluare si nu ziarism). Aceasta consider ca a aparut datorita faptului ca tehnicile angrenate sunt folosite in functie de eficienta lor spirituala si nu tinand cont de diferitele apartenente ideologice (s-au folosit inclusiv din surse crestine) – la fel ca si in stiinta occidentala.

    -principiul “un gram de practica face cat tone de teorie” care este aplicat la MISA a dat rezultate si va informez ca, mai ales in ultimii ani cursantii practica foarte intens, zic eu, datorita unei maturizari a optiunilor lor. Si, drept urmare, au rezultate importante si sunt oameni mai buni si mai valorosi, asa cum cred ca au dorit in inima lor mereu.

    -MISA si dl Bivolaru a reinviat o traditie spirituala tantrica autentica stricta, care la ora actuala se pare ca nu mai exista nici in India. Acolo va informez ca tantra nu mai este cunoscuta decat ca si tantra lui Osho(no comment) , apoi ca si Kalachackra Tantra-autentica din Tibet si apoi ca si o tehnica de magie neagra foarte eficienta plus multe deviatii de provenienta occidentala. Adica vreau sa spun ca principiile, tehnicile si spiritualitatea efectiva tantrica s-au pierdut in multimea de deviatii ca apar cu usurinta in domeniul acesta, de obicei promovand sexul fara iubire si sexul fara controlul energiei sexuale sau desfranarea-dezmatul.. Eventual cu droguri.

    Dl Bivolaru a readus, insa, la suprafata principiile traditionale stricte ce tin de acest domeniu delicat …si care chiar sunt stricte.

    Da, se folosesc informatii din surse existente, iar pentru unele nu se cunosc sursele.

    Ati auzit de secretul lui Polichinele ?
    Toata lumea dorea sa stie care este secretul acestuia, pentru a intelege si copia reusitele sale.
    La moartea sa acesta a facut cunoscut care era secretul sau – lucruri care erau de fapt publice si unanim cunoscute.
    Au spus:”Pai asta stiam si noi..”
    El a raspuns:”Da, dar nu stiati ca asta a fost secretul meu, cu care au am reusit…”

    Deci, nu cred ca este cazul ca fabricantul de caramida sa spuna ca el a construit castelul sau ca ii apartine.

    Imi pare rau ca trebuie sa discutam despre asta acum, dar daca va folositi de chestiuni delicate ale acestor practici stricte si chiar severe (sub unele aspecte) in mod ziaristic, nu cred ca sunteti in slujba adevarului si a lui Dumnezeu…

    Care sunt principiile?
    Pentru ca practicantul yoghin sa poata fi integrat in societate si sa poata fi om normal, eventual chiar si cap de familie, este foarte bine ca se vorbeste despre continenta sexuala activa, adica nu de abtinere si retragere in munti sau in India-Tibet. Credeti ca acesta nu este un principiu spiritual important , strict si chiar destul de dificil de sustinut ?
    Eu sunt sigur ca Da.

    De asemenea, pentru ca un practicant yoga sa fie un om integrat in societate si sa poata avea relatii cu fiinte de sex opus, se subliniaza ca baza aproipierii dintre barbat si femeie trebuie sa fie intotdeauna iubirea si apoi continenta, continenta fara iubire fiind o incalcare a principiilor importanta.

    Este asta o regula stricta?
    Eu zic ca Da.
    Se respecta aceasta regula?
    De multe ori oamenii se mint ca iubesc si actioneaza, dar este
    imposibil sa controlezi prin intermediu cursului asa ceva.
    Este, oricum ceva interior-“frumusetea este in ochii privitorului”, nu-i asa?

    Principiul insa, exista si este subliniat cu putere.

    Principiul transfigurarii vietii

    “CEEA CE ESTE TRECATOR ESTE UN SIMBOL A CEEA ESTE NETRECATOR”.
    Da, imi place asta.. este exceptional. Bun principiu.

    Yama si niyama, cel putin asa cum se cunosc acum in lume, se cultiva si se practica la MISA.
    Sunt greseli pe linia asta?
    Eu cred ca mai sunt scapari, in practica, dar “numai cine nu munceste nu greseste”.
    Insa, majoritar, aceasta grupare consider ca respecta DIN PLIN principiile spirituale si le demonstreaza.

    – nu se practica si nici nu s-a practicat vreodata la MISA prostitutie si nici sexul in grup.

    Despre prostitutie este absolut clar (ganditi-va ca ani de zile se expun principiile stricte ale caii yoghine si chiar credeti ca puteti sa explicati unei fete care realizeaza intre 2 si 5 ore pe zi de antrenament si practici yoghine pe zi ca maine ar fi bine sa faca putina prostitutie….incercati si vedeti care ar fi rezultatul). Despre sexul in grup-nu pot garanta ca nimeni nu a organizat o orgie…particulara…fiindca oamenii sunt liberi acasa la ei, dar niciodata acest lucru nu a fost descris sau stimulat in cadrul cursului.

    Totusi, discutia dumneavoastra de expunere a aspectelor ce tin de calea tantrica de mana drapta sau stanga in public pentru a afecta imaginea MISA este, consider eu, incorecta, deoarece orice cale are aspecte mai deosebite care nu se pot discuta public ca si cum ar fi in ziar, deoarece pentru a fi intelese toti ar trebui sa devina specialisti. Si, daca chiar si specilaistii au dispute, ce mai ziceti despre publicul larg?

    Deci, revin, eu cred ca faceti in mod constient aceste fapte considerand ca, desi nu sunt corecte, rezultatul lor dorit – afectarea imaginii MISA – este neaparat o fapta buna.

    Ei bine, ceea ce faceti dumneavoastra nu cred ca este o fapta buna deoarece pomul se cunoaste dupa roade iar omul dupa fapte

    Recunosc ca eu nu as fi facut toate gesturile facute de dl. Bivolaru, dar cine sunt eu sa il judec pe un om care a facut atat de mult bine celorlalti (cu mult mai mult decat rau – intrebati cursantii, daca aveti o indoiala) si care a reinviat in Romania si chiar in occident IN MOD AUTENTIC yoga si tantra.

    Despre cartile despre tantra ale lui Nick Douglas si Penny Slinger cred ca sunt printre cele mai valoroase carti de tantra si care sunt foarte bine documentate . Sunt un instrument foarte bun, care completat cu o respectare perfecta a regulilor etice si morale yama si nyama si de suprematia iubirii in relatiile dintre persoanele care fac dragoste.
    Acolo se incrimineaza, daca va aduceti aminte, homosexualitatea masculina, dar se mentioneaza forme de apropiere intre femei care, avand alta structura, pot sa se vada una pe alta frumoase, fara a fi homosexuale. Este, de altfel cunoscut ca apropierea femeilor este de o natura foarte diferita decat cea a barbatilor, iar multe din persoanele care participa la paradele gay sunt femei, fara ca ele sa fie homosexuale, doar fiindca ele considera ca le place sa iubeasca SI alte femei.

    Nu sunt de acord cu exhibarea practicilor devotionale si sexuale tantrice pe site-uri numai in dorinta de a face rau MISA cu orice pret si fortati foarte prost in aceasta directie, facand mult rau spiritualitatii. Stiti ca exista practici crestine secrete, chiar si la MUntele Athos sau in manastirile romanesti, care ar fi vulgarizate si ar afecta imaginea bisericii daca ar face obiectul unor dezbateri mizerabile si rautacioase pe internet sau altundeva.

    Sunteti sigura ca daca MISA nu ar fi existat, lumea era mai buna?

    Ei bine, banuiesc raspunsul dumneavoastra, fiindca nu se face primavara cu o floare sau cu o scrisoare, dar ganditi-va cate mii de oameni (dintre care multi sunt acum maturi, integrati frumos in societate, unii chiar CASATORITI SI CHIAR CU COPII ), ar raspunde…DA, cu siguranta ne-a schimbat viata cu mult in bine!

    Povestea cu PIN-ul, desi nu imi place foarte mult, nu pot sa o condamn. In acest caz, PIN-ul este sprijinit de MISA si nu PIN-ul influenteaza MISA…ceeea ce este desigur, diferit, nu…?
    SI, vazand cum in tara infractori evidenti sunt scosi basma curata cu nerusinare iar oameni nevinovati mor in inchisoare, vi se pare nefiresc ca MISA a luat legatura cu un partid pentru a ise face auzita vocea (toate drepturile la replica i-au fost refuzate).
    Sau poate credeti ca inscenarea este adevarata, ca yoghinii umbla cu droguri, arme si prostitutie (ei care condamna practicile astea cu vehementa), sau credeti ca tot ce am vazut la televizor a fost inscenat de yoghini, dupa ce s-ar fi filmat singuri si apoi au dat casetele publicitatii (asa cum a spus CSM)?

    Chiar daca eu cred ca inca va mai bucurati cand vedeti ca MISA este acuzata pe nedrept, gandind ca oricum ar fi, va mai “racoreste” amaraciunea, totusi eu cred ca metoda de a nu gresi este sa mergeti pe calea adevarului si a iubirii.

    “In continuare va hazardati in a trage concluzii despre domnul Ajita, de care ati luat probabil cunostinta pentru prima oara in viata cind a spus ceva de rau despre MISA si Mihai Stoian si ii puneti in circa faptul de a fi influentat de politica.”spuneti dumneavoastra…

    In fine, intrebati care influente politice. Pai mie imi este evident ca furia indreptata impotriva MISA este datorita dezvaluirilor despre scopurile oculte lojilor masonice (si despre care si eu cred, dupa ce am studiat, ca multe au obiective absolut mizerabile), actiune care a deranjat foarte mult (e evident, nu?).

    De altfel, chiar cu asta incepe, in mod oficial, rechizitoriul procurorilor.

    De ce a facut asta domnul Bivolaru …este optiunea dansului, parca eu nu as fi facut chiar asa acest lucru, dar este optiunea dansului…are tot dreptul la ea. Oricum si aici se urmareste tot binele, deci nu pot sa acuz nimic.
    Oricum, a fost singurul om cautat de Interpol pentru presupusa relatie sexuala cu o minora cu discernamant, care a recunoscut ca a fost torturata pentru declaratie la politie, are cel mai mare si mai bine pazit dosar de cercetare intocmit in Romania iar pentru omorarea sau incarcerarea sa se fac eforturi incredibile, incomparabile cu lipsa de zel in cazuri evidente de infractiuni grave…

    A, cum este influentat domnul Ajita de politica?
    Nu am nici o dovada directa, dar faptul ca un om ca dansul face niste afirmatii fara documentare, in scopul evident de a strica renumele cuiva imi da de gandit. Mai ales ca acum se judeca asa zis-ul dosar de trafic de persoane . in care doauzeci si ceva de oameni ar fi traficat opt si se cer despagubiri de parca in ashram au muncit cat pentru piramide – adica cam toata averea MISA.

    Dar poate ca domnul Ajita este bine intentionat si a fost gresit informat de binevoitori ca dumneavoastra sau altii. Sau poate se speculeaza faptul ca existenta filmului cu Mihai Stoian si a filmelor despre orgasmul urinar (care cred ca este posibil sa fi fost sustrase la descinderile abuzive- atunci s-a luat si s-a distrus tot restul de catre jandarmi) poate impresiona simtul vedantic al domnului Ajita.

    Il rog, insa, pe domnul Ajita, sa priveasca mai in adanc.

    Eu cred ca nu as fi facut filmul documentar-artistic despre sexualitate asa cum l-a facut Mihai Stoian (SI NU MISA).
    El este desigur, film in categoria porno deoarece arata actul sexual in mod explicit. Totusi, nu uitati ca si copii sau nepotii dumneavoastra vor privi filme porno si nu vor putea privi decat productii perverse, ale unor oameni asociali sau vulgari, invatand despre sexualitate ceea ce vad ei acolo. De ce credeti ca acest domeniu important al educatiei oamenilor trebuie lasat pe seama filmelor vulgare ? A, daca va legati de acest aspect doar pentru ziarism este cu totul altceva–subiectul atrage si impresioneaza.

    Filmele despre orgasmul urinar nu le-as introduce incategoria porno si ele chiar arata aspecte legate de orgasmul urinar cu continenta sexuala despre care eu am convingerea ca nu contravine nici unui principiu spiritual…Sper ca ati citit despre efectele lui spirituale sau poate ca ati si practicat.

    Vreti sa speculati aceasta pentru a folosi acest lucru sensibil pentru a da impresia ca este vorba de dezmat? Pai, nu va poate opri, deocamdata, decat constiinta, dar parerea mea este ca este incorect sa faceti asa ceva.

    Apropo, am auzit de femei care au trecut prin “paturile” dansului si le-am intrebat de amanunte. Am aflat ca ele au dorit foarte mult acest lucru, deoarece considerau acest fapt ca pe o initiere din partea unui maestru tantric (nu pot decat sa spun ca asa e) si ca demersul, de cele mai multe ori, nu era erotic ci initiatic. Si au fost multumite..nu de sex ci de aspectul spiritual pe care l-au simtit.

    Oare exista si nemultumiri?

    Pai sigur…ar fi imposibil sa nu existe, oamenii sunt multi si diferiti.
    Oricum chiar daca tantra nu se ocupa numai de sexualitate, cum spuneti (este chiar doar o parte…daca doriti, argumentez, am cu ce), nu vi se pare firesc ca un maestru tantric sa faca si asa ceva?

    Despre transmiterea de boli…eu ma mir ca ati mentionat doar cateva…mi se pare normal ca un astfel de demers are de luptat cu aceasta problema care sunt bolile cu transmitere sexuala. Totusi, eu am auzit altceva de la persoanele pe care le-am intervievat- si au fost multe.. Mi-au spus ca, din contra, nu numai ca nu se imbonaveau, dar chiar si unele “imperfectiuni” ale starii de sanatate sexuala dispareau si se simteau apoi mult mai bine. Astfel de declaratii stiu ca pot fi si subiective, dar imi este foarte clar ca daca se imbolnaveau mi-ar fi spus.

    Niciodata nu mi s-a spus ca s-au imbolnavit.

    NU este exclus (desi nu am cules nici macar o marturie) ca in unele cazuri sa fi fost si probleme venerice, dar lucrul acesta, daca a avut loc uneori, nu este de mirare.

    La MISA se preda yoga intr-un mod exceptional si eficient. Aveti critici? Si eu am, dar este , dupa parerea mea, una dintre cela mai mari si mai valoroase scoli spirituale din lume. Si a fel au spus si cei de la Federatie.

    Ce se preda la MISA?
    Fiti sincera, e adevarat ca se preda yoga,
    iar tantra este o optiune ulterioara pentru cei care o doresc.
    Si nu sunt putini cei care doresc. Asta e tot.

    Ar putea fi MISA mai buna?
    Da, dar asta nu da dreptul nimanui sa distruga o constructie care care s-a ridicat greu si cu multa iubire si daruire si care, totusi, a ajutat si ajuta chiar imens de mult multi oameni.

    Ce as face in locul dumneavoastra?
    As fi, mai prudent, as cauta sa fiu sigur ca am motive foarte oneste atunci cand actionez si m-as intreba permanent daca ceea ce fac este corect si daca include si iubire
    Si as face foarte multa yoga.
    Oare ati fost acum instructor yoga in Germania daca nu ati fi cunoscut MISA anterior?
    Este posibil ca rapunsul sa fie… foarte negativ.

    Repet,
    Pomul se cunoaste dupa roade iar omul dupa fapte.
    Cum este pomul dumneavoastra?
    Cum este pomul criticat?
    si
    De ce doriti sa se usuce pomul altuia…chiar credeti ca nu e bun pentru nimeni?

    dr. Alexandru German

  16. Gura lumii says:

    Dear Atmaviveka, maybe you don’t know but the tantric buddhism doesn’t need to be “brought back to life” by mr. Bivolaru and his disciples because it is very much alive even today. There are alot of authentic tibetan masters who teach Kalachakra an Phowa in the western world and they allways insist that those teachings must be practised only with the very strict condition of an autenthic lineage and an initiation obtained from an authentic master. Even tulkus like Karmapa and Dalai Lama are requested to be initiated again in each life in those teachings, even if they are supposed to have some knowledge remained from their previous incarnations.
    I haven’t acused mr. Bivolaru of anything. I’ve just asked to what lineage does he belongs (if he belongs to one) in regard to the Kalachakra system and the Phowa technique. Is this such a difficult question to respond to? He has or he has not received an authentic initiation from a tibetan master in this life? And if there is such a master who initiated mr. Bivolaru, who is that master and to what lineage does he belong?
    And in what concerns the Kashmiri Shaivism, I know from reading that this tradition had very few real masters in the last decades, the most known beeing Swami Lakshman Joo. From who exactly did receive mr. Catrina (or mr. Bivolaru) his initiation in this very esoteric tradition?
    It is so difficult for you to answer to some very specific questions? Why do you prefer instead to express your feelings about the one putting the questions instead of simply answering directly to the questions themselves?

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