Comments By Mihai Stoian

Posted: April 2, 2008 / in: Blog / 10 comments

I will make some comments to all the general issues and also to some particular ones. Some of the comments that were tendentious or irrelevant were deleted. Generally I am glad that tantra is such a subject of interest. By the big number of visits that the articles and comments about tantra are getting I can see the fascination this chapter of spirituality is exerting on modern people. It is not a coincidence since these days tantra represents one of the systems that hold the keys of the spiritual future. I will publish a series of articles that will shade more light on the tantric topic.

The motto of this set of comments can be: “the wise man shows the moon and the ignorant ones are talking about the finger the wise man uses to show the moon”

@Gura lumii

It is very simple how 7-8 people can write for many hours on the forums: in shifts! You can think for yourself if you want to find the solution to this problem or.. ask the ones that are doing this. They know better than us since they manage to do it. You also should read more careful my first reply to Ajita and you will understand better the situation with the movies…if you really want to understand this. Your confusions are soon becoming obsessive…

@Crina

The priests from the temple were also sending Jesus to death so… the story is not new on the spiritual field. I am aware which part of this statement will make an impression on you but this is it…read the motto of these comments.

It seems that you are not reading what I am saying since your conclusion is that: “tantra is all about sexuality”. This situation is only in your mind since I didn’t state that and my message is not at all showing this. Your conclusion is forced in and doesn’t go consistently with my statements. In our yoga school we are talking about the techniques to control the sexual energy but the time given to this lesson from the whole curriculum of courses is showing something else that you are stating here. I am surprised to read this from someone that pretends to attend our classes.

@A.M.

Sexual tantra is a part of tantra that is explaining the concepts related with the sexual energy and its spiritual integration. Stating that this is not having anything to do with yoga sows that you don’t know the definition of “yoga”. As I already said in one of my letters, for example ha-tha yoga is also using the polarity symbolism that is rooted in the same energy as the sexuality. It seems that you are talking from some religious summer university courses because only there you can find such stupid comments about sexuality as being completely forbidden on the spiritual path. Our school is using all the good things that appear in different traditions in order to provide people with a specific path they can tailor themselves according to their own needs. It is funny you are giving the example of Sivanada since there are so many others that are not denying the use of the sexual energy?

Didn’t you hear about brahmacharya integrated as sexual continence in the yogic life? If not I suggest reading more if you are interested into this subject. If you are not interested then please don’t apply the principle (very famous among Romanians): “let my neighbor’s goat die too”. (here the goat will be the chance to use the sexual energy and in the same time practice brahmacharya).

@A.M. @Gura Lumii

I am working now to a series of articles that are explaining the relation between the traditional tantra and the modern approach. There you will have the “proves” you requested and much more. Please read them and after we will talk. You have to keep in mind that each age of humanity have had its masters that were adapting the traditional teachings to that time in order to fit with the specific needs of the people existing then. Without this adaptation and upgrade, the teachings are remaining almost inaccessible to the people, being understood by the very few that will fit with that specific “profile” that is now almost gone. These aspects will become clearer for you if you read Grieg’s articles in the tantra section of MISA’s web site: http://www.yogaesoteric.net/content.aspx?lang=EN&item=1714

@gura lumii

Maybe you haven’t searched with the open spiritual perspective therefore what was visible for the spiritual seeker was not visible for you. Why not applying some spiritual tantric practice for a while and then search again? Don’t forget that “When the disciple is ready the master appears” says the spiritual tradition.

Your statement that “Kamasutra is not actually a tantric text” is a prove for the statement I have made above. A.M. was stating that Kamasutra is not a yogic text, you are stating that it is not a tantric text either! Maybe it is a cooking book? In the coming articles about tantra and the tantric concepts you can understand (maybe for the first time) what is tantra and how much or less is a text like Kamasutra belonging to the tantric path.ย  Until then I wish you a good tantric experience if you are so interested into this subject.

@gura lumii

The fact that you state that the lineage have to be as you said it is not correct. Please come with the text and I am ready to show you how I understand the “lineage” problem. But as a general observation (that is valid for any text talking about the “lineage” topic) we have to take into consideration that Jesus was not coming from any lineage (at least not an officially accepted one) and yet He was not less Divine. Also you have a lot of spiritual masters that started a great spiritual lineage but who were not initiated by any master in the physical world. In this respect I remind you about Ramana Maharishi. And more we have a lot of “masters” that belong to spiritual lineages and they are not at all proving their divine integration. It is the specific of Kali yuga that the lineages are lost and the spiritual traditions are renewed by genuine masters. More than this you have not to forget that not only the Tibetans are reincarnating but all the people are subjected to such a process. Why not Grieg receiving these initiations in a previous life and now perfectly remembering them? He explained this many times in the past. The only valid criteria that we can apply here is the spiritual efficiency that his teachings will have. And from what I have experienced (and many others did) his teachings are benefiting of a spiritual integration that is specific to a genuine spiritual master. Your approach is analogically like you have a very good car that proved excellent on the road but since you don’t know who is the producer of that car you don’t want to drive it, considering that it is a bad car. Think about this example when talking about the lineage topic and the things will have a completely different perspective and you will have the chance to find spirituality in places you wouldn’t expect now.

As for my colegue Nicu Catrina, the problem is much simpler since he has his spiritual master here in the world in the person of Grieg thus having a very solid lineage.

@atmaviveka

I agree with your statement that the practice and the awareness about these teachings these men generated (Grieg and Nicu) are much more important than the papers that they are having. From the many travels and contacts I have had in the world I know that there are extremely many people that have a lot of initiations and diplomas and strong lineages but their spiritual efficiency to awaken people toward spirituality is extremely little.

Even observing the people that are criticizing this yoga school I have noticed that their understanding about the spiritual subjects was deepened while searching the reasons to criticize. The messages I have read from many of them in the beginning were full of confusions and contradictions but now they are more coherent and even more intelligent. This is showing me that the good and the truth is inside of the school since a positive transformation is taking place even in its critics. (it is all resonance after all)

The manifested interest that this spiritual school will disappear is a great one from the Masonic organization and they usually act by taking in front people of low morality or intelligence that are making a personal crusade from fighting the school. This is why most of the time those that are criticizing without any background are only the puppets that are pushed foreword in this battle against genuine spirituality. I am now preparing a material about the patterns we have discovered studying the attacks that were done against many other spiritual movements in the world. The materials that I also have are proving with facts that these patterns are the result of a clear plan and not just the result of some agitated or furious people. And the strategy is diabolically smart because always the puppets that are pushed in front (and they are giving their name and putting themselves in the line of debate) have very strong ego and they will never accept that they were manipulated. They always say that they do it out of their own conviction and there is nobody suggesting them what to do. They will defend in this way unconsciously the ones staying in the shadow and pulling the strings. I will publish here the amazing documents that are showing these patterns as being the result of a clear plan.

@kapalika

If you want to make a difference and you are really concerned about what people understand about spirituality and particularly about yoga and tantra(as you pretend), why don’t you make some profound analysis about this topic and publish it with a great success. Than the people will be able to see what is the real tantra and what is the fake and inefficient one. If people will practice after your books and they will get enlightened and in the same time yours will be much easier to understand than be sure that nobody will follow some schools like MISA which you have accused of “plagiarism”. Even the notion of plagiarism mentioned in the context of a spiritual school is hilarious especially when you claim you care about people! When you are more concerned about the copyright than the efficiency of the spiritual techniques you show your real face…and that is not something you will like to see. Be sure that people would not follow some teachers and some teachings if they are not working, and they will follow the ones that are working…even if there is a problem of copyright there. I hope you have understood something from this example and next time you will come with some practical results in guiding people on the spiritual path before you mention that you care for people.

But so far you are only making judgments and you cannot prove anything. Do you have any spiritual experience or you are just a person that pretends on all kind of forums as knowing a lot about spirituality? So far I could see from you only poisonous radical statements without any argument. And I have read many of your statements. They are all some mediocre interpretation (new age by the way) of some classical texts, with no serious references or clear arguments. Good luck with your studies.

@cecilika

Your letter is obsessively insisting on topics that are constantly appearing in all the discussions where you participate. It is clear for anyone that is reading your comments that they are coming from your personal frustrations that you got after loosing your position in MISA yoga school. Also your personal problems you have had with your husband seem to create this hatred that you try to spread around you. It is becoming clear that you are desperate to get some attention in order to find some naรฏve people that will buy your lies and in this way to comfort your ego that you are not the one crazy but all the others are. This is a classic behavior for persons in your situation and I don’t expect for you to recognize this. I have seen this some times with people leaving an organization: a sport club, a yoga school, a scientific team. And always for those that left after they have been making big mistakes there in the team (as you did before you left MISA, being expelled for your mistakes).

One more think I will tell you because maybe you will consider it. I have noticed reading sometimes your posts in the last two years that you are learning a lot in this personal crusade you have against MISA yoga school. In the beginning your posts were embarrassingly stupid even for the other critics (especially for those that have a job in gossiping about the school). Some they were even telling you to stop with your “writing diarrhea” because of this very low quality of language and intelligence (everybody can see the posts on the forum). But in time you started to become more coherent in expression and a little less vulgar. And even if you cannot accept it that is also because of this debate you are into…so you can say thanks to Grieg and to MISA for your personal training even after you have been kicked out of the school because of your severe mistakes. Wish you love and peace!

 

@bhairava or Dr. Alexandru German

Your letter for cecilia is interesting especially that you has some critics regarding some of my activity and of the school. I also thank you for the positive statements and I am anytime at your disposal if you want to deepen more the aspects where our opinion does not coincide. I believe that from constrictive critics the truth can be found. I will continue to publish more materials to disclose the actions that are done nowadays by the occult forces lead by Freemasonry against any spiritual school. Also I will continue to explain, for all willing to listen, the spiritual value of the teachings of the Spiritual Guide that is Grieg.

You are right that the people are more interested in politics and in this respect you will be amazed of the perversity of the last letter of Ajita. He is now showing clearly the political force behind him, especially after the international yoga federation was not agreeing with him and confirmed to us the Bucharest congress one more time. We are expecting in Bucharest the participation of all the board of the international yoga federation….that tells a lot of the kind of action Ajita is trying to do.

Wish you great success.

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Comments (10)

  1. A.M. says:

    Hello Admin

    Thank you for your response. I was not expecting you to respond, and I was quite surprised that one can build a constructive discussion that would benefit all. I have nothing against MISA or any spiritual school whatsoever. I hope that you do realize that in this day and age of Kali Yuga, it is extremly hard for one to find something authentic, that is the reason of why I was so exigent in my comment. I have nothing against a sexual form of Tantra if it is true and can lead the one who practices it to Godhood. What I have against, is the thousends of Neo-Tantric system that have innundated the West, having absolutely nothing to do with traditional yoga. That is why I asked so much of a lineage, or texts, or something that would prove it’s authenticty.

    I am not talking from any religious summer courses as you meant, but from my own studies and readings. There is a clear evidence that at least some of the most important widespread global religions today that claim ancient lineage, christianity, hinduism, islamism, budhism, etc. do not view sex as an act to

  2. A.M. says:

    establish a relationship with God. On the contrary, those movements only appeared during the new age period (60’s – 70’s). Correct me if I am wrong. It is good that this discussions take place, since they can clear a lot of rabble from anti-misa movements and pro-misa movements. My interest does not lie in petty forumistic squabbles, I am only interested to find out the truth about spirituality.

  3. Gura lumii says:

    @admin

    I will use further your analogy of the car. The problem here is not if the car is working or not. The problem is that the car has the Mercedes logo on it but it’s not sure if the manufacturer is really the german company or the “product” is pirated in China. ๐Ÿ˜‰
    If you wouldn’t call what you are practicising with names like “TRADITIONAL Tantra”,”Kalachakra”, “Phowa” and so on, nobody would ask you about the lineages. But you’ve stated that you practise TRADITIONAL Tantra, not some new form of Tantra revelated for the first time on the planet by mr. Bivolaru. So you have to prove that your “Tantra” is really TRADITIONAL, that your Phowa is the genuine tibetan Phowa, that your Kalachakra is the genuine Kalachakra and so on. You have to prove that your Mercedes is a genuine Mercedes since you use the company’s logo. ๐Ÿ™‚ If the car would have no logo, or would have the Dacia logo, nobody would ask you this sort of questions. ๐Ÿ˜‰
    I had the ocasion to read some texts about the genuine Phowa and the genuine Kalachakra and I also had the ocasion to read about MISA’s variant of Phowa and some written courses about Kalachakra. The informations in the written courses of Kalachakra seemed to me quite sparse and reduced (i don’t know now exactly what english term is better), but the biggest differences were in the Phowa technique. Traditionally in Tibet the Phowa technique is used to achieve the ability of dying consciously, but in the MISA variant it seems that this aspect is either missing entirely (at least in the written material that i’ve read), either treated as a secondary aspect. The main goal of the technique seems to be in the MISA course a different one than it is the tibetan main goal(that of learning how to die in a controlled manner). Also, the MISA Phowa technique includes some prayers to “God The Father” (a concept not utilised in the tantric buddhism), the Atman concept (not utilised in buddhism also) etc. These seem very clearly to me as new and sincretic innovations, which is not necessarily a bad thing in itself. Maybe the technique really works even in this form, but where is the conformity with the tradition here? Why don’t MISA just state that it is a new technique inspired by an old traditional one, and even more, that even it’s TANTRA is actually a new one, “evolved” from the old traditional Tantra?
    I’ve had in the past used a CD-ROM received as a gift from a friend of mine who was a sailor. It worked very fine and it was made in China in a pirate workshop although it had the Philips logo on it. I was very pleased with the way it functioned but I never believed or affirmed that it was a genuine Philips product. ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Now about the story with those “20 hours daily”. If those 7-8 people work presumably in shifts, than this means that they would have enough time at their disposal to earn incomes for their day-to-day life from ordinary sources, without having to rely exclusively on those 1.000 euros that you claim they are receiving from romanian secret service. Your entire argumentation on this matter is than flawed. Check your message again and you will certainly see that yourself.

  4. kapalika says:

    Dear Mihai,

    In my experience messages somewhat inconvenient to you tend to disappear from this site, so I was constrained to post my reply on a forum where it can’t expect moderation. You are welcome to copy it here if you want. I do not wish to access this blog anymore.

    Good luck,

    kapalika

    link: http://www.exmisa.ro/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=588&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

  5. A.M. says:

    @kapalika
    Interesting message, however it is obvious why the admin would not post it on his blog. I would not post it.
    Untill you learn to behave and to speak, probably messages will not be posted. It appears that your knowledge of sanskrit and other oriental subjects dosent count as a marker to use offensive language. Your response is nothing more than a destructive attempt to shatter some discussion which might had been going towards a spiritual summit, from which all coud benefit. I guess this is not in your interest. Your interest lies more in the gramatical use of the english language, so I would suggest to kindly direct your attention towardws that, and leave spiritual matters to those who are actually interested to discuss it.
    Another interesting this is the choice of the forum you wanted to post your message on. Those people on that forum do not care about exposing on MISA something. They only care for destroying. I do not know or have the experience to judge MISA, but even if it would be as they say, their attitude and offensive, lacking diplomatic language, dosent help them a bit in their quest, wether it’s true or not.

    @gura lumii
    Are you living in romania? A decent salary is around 250 euros. Granted it does NOT suffice to live decently as a human being (rent is very big), it is still “kind of” adequate. Not even the garbage man has 150 euros a month. I do not know where you work, or where you got your info, but it’s false.
    Also, it is true that some people spend A WHOLE lot of time on that forum bashing MISA left and right. Again, I do not know MISA so “deeply” as they do, so I abstain from judging. What I do know, is this “ex-misa” campaign is just an excuse to satisfy someone’s obsession. I would kindly recomend to read sir’s holger message on IYF Yahoo group. It is very clear and concise. The Guru/Master/Leader is not a shining knight who guides the disciple towards light. It is just a pointer. Having an obsession about MISA, is different entirely, from having an anti-constructing discussion, one at which you respect your adversary, beacause you might learn something from him, or you might be plain wrong in your “crusade”. I say it again, respect respect respect. You people are lacking it.

    @admin – mihai
    I anxiously await your writing on the subject. It is very good since it will clear a lot of the rubble that has laid since some time. However, I must agree with Kapalika about the subject of Kama Sutra. The text itself has nothing to do with spirituality whatsoever. I have read a translation side by side with original sanskrit, and it really is nothing spiritual whatsoever. The sex and spirituality seem very interesting to me, since both are very deep, psichological tranches, from which one can learn a lot. Looking forward to a constructing argument.

    A.M.

  6. Gura lumii says:

    @A.M.(

    Maybe you didn’t understand my message. It is not me who affirmed that the romanian average salary is 150 euro, it was Mihai who wrote that in his message to the IYF.
    He wrote: “Besides, as anyone can notice by visiting these discussion forums, some of these anonymous people spend almost daily more then 20 hours posting continuously many calumnious messages and slandering articles on such sites. It is normal to wonder how these people make a living. How is it possible that daily 7-8 people spend about 20 hours daily, manifesting a visceral hatred against this yoga school and the yoga teacher Gregorian Bivolaru? We have received information from people who are in contact with the secret service. We found out that in fact these forums are open and administrated by Romanian secret service, together with the prosecution and with the former politician Adrian Nastase. Initially, when he was prime minister, he gave the political order to destroy this yoga school and to imprison immediately yoga teacher Gregorian Bivolaru. In the light of this information, you can easily realize who is financing these people. Some of them are ex or still active agents of the secret service, infiltrated in time within this yoga school and later on used as false witnesses for some absurd accusations, unique in this world โ€“ such as the fact that the ancient karma yoga practice is in fact unpaid work. Such people, paid from the secret funds of the Romanian special secret service with over 1000 euros per month activate as anonymous on these websites, having the dirty job of misinforming, calumniating and denigrating this yoga school (MISA). Behind their anonymity, they benefit of a completely inherent protection and impunity. As we know, anonymous persons cannot be held responsible in a calumny trial. Due to the huge wages they receive monthly, when in fact in Romania the average wage is 150 euros, such corrupted people โ€“ tools of prosecutors and secret services โ€“ who have nothing better to do then to spread calumnious and anonymous news on the internet.”
    A.M., please read the quote from Mihai carefully and AFTER that read my comments to it. Maybe now you will understand what were my objections. I hope so, because I don’t want to write any more comments here. I’ve wrote this one only because I think you’ve misunderstood me.

    @MIhai – It is a pleasant surprise that you’ve let our last messages to appear. Unfortunately it’s kind of late.

  7. Gura lumii says:

    @admin

    Only now I’ve seen that it appeared my old message with “the car” on the blog. Another unexpected surprise, I must admit. I’m curious if another message (not one of mine this time) is now visible on the blog.
    This is by any chance the reason why your blog didn’t function today afternoon for some time?
    Maybe now you are finally ready for a real duscussion. I hope so.

  8. Crina says:

    โ€œthe wise man shows the moon and the ignorant ones are talking about the finger the wise man uses to show the moonโ€

    If the moon he shows is fake, whom can I blame, then?

  9. yogacharya says:

    Draga Mihai,

    in presa se speculeaza pe tema excluderii MISA/NATHA din Federatia internationala de Yoga. De asemenea in legatura cu retragerea calitatii de membru pentru tine, Grieg si Mahalayananda pe grupul de discutii yahoo al federatiei.
    Pe forumurile anti MISA se birfeste chiar ca Sri Ajita ar fi pus niste conditii ce ar trebui indeplinite de MISA si filialele ei internationale, pentru ca reprezentantii federatiei sa se intilneasca cu tine in vederea clarificarii situatiei.

    Poti sa ne spui cum stau lucrurile cu adevarat?
    Multumesc.

  10. Hi, I visit your blog a couple times a week.. I’d love to know if you have any difficulties with spam. I do on my site.. Which plugin do you use to prevent it?

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